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Five Hours of Dual?  The underwriter requires five hours of dual, what to do.

You need dual?  You are buying an aircraft and the insurance company underwriter is requiring five hours of dual in this new airplane, how do you get the aircraft home?

An underwriter will require dual when he feels a pilot has insufficient make & model time to proficiently pilot that aircraft.  Often, the underwriter will require dual hours and solo time prior to carrying passengers, depending on the aircraft’s gear and horse power.  The  Certified Flight Instructor (CFI)  will need to meet the Open Pilot Warranty or be approved by the underwriter before the instruction can commence.

Many people find a local CFI and take them along to pick up the aircraft.  The ideal CFI is also an A&P and can perform a brief “pre-buy” and give dual instruction all the way home.  But that type of person is not always available.

Alternatively, you might check with the seller and the local Fixed Base Operator (FBO) to find a CFI on the seller’s field, or just hire a qualified pilot to bring the aircraft to you.

But re,member, the CFI will need to have some sort of minimum hours in the same make and model of aircraft.  If not that CFI will also need to be approved by the underwriters.

Oh, you could always request that the seller deliver it.

Recently I received a question about renting Cessna 182.

Question:  “I have read your book and got to say a brief hello to you at Oshkosh. I wonder if I might trouble you for some advice about renting Cessna 182.

I have just completed my Private and have 60+ hours in a 172. (And I am currently working on my instrument.)  I would like to move up to a 182 Skylane because it is a better instrument platform and can carry four average people.

The challenge is finding a 182 to rent.  (It is the basic Catch 22.) In order to move up to a performance airplane you need experience, but getting it is difficult.

The rental companies here are renting Cessna 182, but they require 100 hours total time and 10 hours in type and require you to use their CFI if you want to get the hours.  (I want to use my CFI because he has 4000 hours, which is probably four times the hours of the most experienced CFI at the rental companies.

One of my friends owns a Skylane and wants it flown more.  He also uses my CFI, who is his neighbor at the airpark. In addition, would let him give me the training hours that would be required for time in type.  The concern is over insurance.  I want to be able to pay him for the use of his plane, he doesn’t want profit, just coverage of the per hour costs.  My basic questions;

1. Can I pay him per hour costs without violating the FAR’s? Is that renting Cessna 182?
2. Could I become a minor partner (under 3% per non-owned insurance) and then pay him for the expenses?
3. Should I try to be a named pilot on his insurance policy?
4. Any other advice on how best to handle this?

Thanks for any help you can provide.  I thought the book was great!

Answer:  Thanks for the note.  The Cessna 182 models are great aircraft and probably one of the best IFR platforms available.  I do understand the rental problems.  The same problems will occur if you want to fly your neighbor’s aircraft. The underwriters will put on some sort of minimum hour requirement and/or training before turning you loose.

In answer to your questions, by number;

2. The FAA does allow reimbursement of expenses, but the owner cannot make a profit. Make sure you check with the FAA and don’t take my word on it. Most insurance policies say the same basic thing. However, I have had people set up limited rental agreements and they had them approved by the underwriters so there is no question as to coverage.
3. I suppose, but not sure you would need to. That’s kind of between the owner, you and your legal advisers. You would still need to be a named pilot on his policy if you do not meet the policy open pilot requirements.
4. Definitely. Policy language will not permit you to fly unless you are named and approved OR meet the open pilot warranty (OPW). You probably won’t meet the OPW because of the aircraft model and your low hours. You will not be covered for training or flying on his policy unless you are named and the policy is amended to include you and your training. That will increase his premium, but it will also make sure you both are covered.
5. In summary, I think I would ask to be a named pilot on the policy (unless he wants you to be a partner, then you would be a named insured. There is a difference) and plan on paying for the reimbursement of expenses to the owner. That is a gray area by the FAA, usually considered items such as fuel and oil. You would also want to split the cost of the basic insurance and then you would pay for the additional cost of adding you to the policy.  Another option would be to add you to the policy and ask the underwriters for a limited rental endorsement.  There could be a charge for this but it would allow him to charge you “rent” for use of the aircraft and still be covered on the insurance. You need to make sure the local FAA is in agreement with this. Some of the FAA Flight Standards District Offices (FSDO) offices will not allow a rental agreement for a private owner.

Hope that helps.