Category Archives: aircraft training

Murphy Moose or Cessna 185?

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Question. 
I’m considering either building a Murphy Moose, or buying a Cessna 185.  I want it for flying in canoes and kayaks to remote locations in North America (last trip was canoeing near the Arctic Ocean).  I’m not yet even a private pilot (but will be by summer).  I want a budget planning estimate of what the operating cost of either of these aircraft are going to cost me, equipped with amphibious floats, for a qualified pilot with low hours.  Can you do that?










Answer. 
Sort of.  I consider the Murphy Moose and the Cessna 185 to be pretty close in operational costs as far as fuel burn, maintenance etc.  A lot will depend on the engine used in the Moose.  Another big difference will be that you will build the Moose and you can do the maintenance if you have the repairman certificate.  The Cessna 185 will need a shop and mechanic to do the repairs.  But the savings you get in maintenance for the Moose will probably be made up in the insurance premiums.  Since it is an experimental aircraft and since it will be on amphibious floats, insurance will be almost impossible or at least very, very expensive.  Not to say the insurance for a low time pilot in a Cessna 185 will be that much lower, it will still be expensive. 
I’d look into calculating the average cost to operate a Cessna 185 or maybe even a 206. Contact me for a free sample cost of ownership Excel spread sheet. 
I’d also contact a few owners and see what they are saying.  I have been told that the Cessna 185 costs about $130 an hour to operate, not counting the floats.  It would be worth your while to do a little research before you make a decision. 
It will also be necessary for you to build up a number of hours as a pilot AND as a seaplane pilot.  The chances for a low time pilot (under 500 total time and 100 seaplane hours) of getting any insurance will be very low. 
That might also make the difference in which aircraft you get.  If you build (or build) the aircraft without having to borrow money, insurance might not be required.

On a side note: Murphy Aircraft feels the Moose is probably closer in operation to a Dehaviland Beaver.   Okay, I have to say, that’s a selling point for the Moose right there. Who hasn’t wanted a Dehaviland Beaver?  I may be a Cessna fan but a round engine aircraft on Amphibs…

Proficiency training Simulator or aircraft?

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The following question from a customer asked about doing regular training.  Its important to note that sometimes insurance companies require training in a specific class or category of aircraft.  For example; if you fly a pressurized or cabin class aircraft, you will probably be required to get “factory approved”  initial ground and flight training along with recurrent training after that. Most companies require recurrent every year but there are a few that will go for two or three years between the training. A lot depends on the type of aircraft you are flying.   
That said —- 
Q. Proficiency.  I’m thinking of going to a school such as RTC, Flight Safety etc.  Most of these companies do simulator training.  Am I better off going out with an instructor, doing the FAA Wings kind of thing, or going to a school?  Training in the airplane will give me some dual, my Instrument Proficiency Check (IPC) and my flight review?  Which is a better way to go?

A. That’s a tough one.  From an insurance standpoint, many of the underwriters require training from a factory approved school that specializes in your specific aircraft.  That training is often in a simulator and counts as your IPC, flight review and dual.  That is if it’s from an approved school or training institution. 

I’m a big believer in the FAA Wings programs and flight simulators to keep a pilot proficient.  If the weather is really bad or your checkbook is a little empty, flying with a Flight Simulator program on your home computer can be a great help.  While it might not be logging “real” hours, it can sure help keep your mind in the flying mood.  The Flight Sim program can overlay weather, set up approaches and do almost everything a pilot need s to do to feel comfortable in their aircraft.  Flying to a new destination?  Set up the Flight Sim program to fly into the area, make a few approaches and you’ll feel like you been there before when you get there for the first time.

Whenever possible take advantage of flying the real thing and practice.   Sure I like simulators and software, but I think the real proficiency comes from flying the aircraft.  That’s why we buy an aircraft to begin with.  Hook up with a qualified instructor that you like and go out and have fun and learn at the same time.  

Question from a reader – Should I buy an aircraft to learn to fly.

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Q.  Sky, I’m looking at getting a private pilot rating in the next couple of years, and have considered purchasing an airplane to use during instruction.  I have been told it would help me save on rental fees and it does seem, that you can buy more affordably than rent!  However, can a student pilot get (affordable) insurance on his personal aircraft while learning to fly?  Seems there may be a contradiction here? 

I enjoy reading your articles; they are always informative and entertaining.
I would appreciate any information you might provide in response to my question,

A.  I do think buying can be a good way to go.  Ownership frees up the planes schedule and you can get it whenever you want.  No overnight charges if you take a trip.  You know the maintenance history and as an owner, you get comfortable with the aircraft.
But, the biggest problem is buying something that might not be what you want at a later time.  Surprisingly, the wants and needs get mixed up, so what you want, might be different than what you really need.  If possible fly a few different models of aircraft.  That might mean going to a few different FBO’s and getting in their aircraft.   But after you get a few hours, you will be able to tell the difference between a Cessna 150 and a Cherokee 140.  You know, high and low wing, landing, visibility, all these factors are important to every pilot in some manner.  Make sure you try them all out before you purchase.

After the decision, a lot depends on what is “affordable” to you.  If you were to buy a $25,000 Cessna 172 or Cherokee 140 you would probably spend about $1200 a year in full coverage insurance.  A Cessna 150 would be a little bit less because of only having two seats.  A tailwheel aircraft would be a little more.