Category Archives: Aviation

Cessna 172 or 177?

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Question – Cessna 172 or 177?:

Cessna 172 or 177? I am a student pilot and have a couple of questions.  I have read your piece on renters insurance and I think I understand the coverage.  My questions relate to future “owned aircraft” coverage.  Is there any advantage to have a policy while a student thus developing a history?

I am positive I will soon be an aircraft owner; currently I am shopping and still reading your book.  I even have my name in line for a hanger.  It seems the planes I would like to have are just beyond my experience (conventional gear, some are greater than 200 hp).  I do not need the horsepower, but I do like the conventional gear.  Everyone I talk with, including you in your book, keep pointing me back to the Cessna 172.  My thought is after I gain some hours I can sell it and buy something else.  Guess it is time for you to write a new book “How To Sell Your Airplane”.  I am more fearful of buying then selling.  My experience doing this with cars always finds my selling for less than I paid.  I also cannot stop thinking that just getting what you want in the first place makes more sense.

Here is my short list of choices:

The venerable Cessna 172

Maule M4-210 (there’s a 1965 model for sale not far away)

Cessna 170 (can’t afford a 180)

If I had to get a tri-cycle gear airplane, I think I would rather have a Cessna 177

My price range is the $40k – $50k zone (limited because I want to pay for the plane – no financing) thus; most of what I see was born in the 60’s or early 70’s.  My flying will be pretty local. One to three hour trips to visit family all of whom are similarly spaced like spokes on a wheel with me in Portland at the hub.  It is the short flights and hanging out for a few days thing that makes renting hard if not impossible.  The FBO operator where I’m training told me he will not rent out a plane for such a short trip (flying time) and let it be gone for several days.

I expect to get my certificate sometime this summer and plan to move right into IFR training.  By this point, I would really like to be training in my own plane.

What do you think of my story so far?

Answer:

Buying renters coverage is a good option and so is developing a history with the insurance companies.  However, it is not going to be that big of a deal, as far as insurance rates are concerned.  The first year is always going to be more expensive, ownership wise and insurance wise.

I am a big fan of the Cessna 172.  The Cessna 177 would be another great choice.  A tail wheel aircraft will always have higher requirements and higher insurance premiums than the tri-gear.  Even though the Cessna 170 is a good aircraft, I would opt for the 172.

My experience with Maule aircraft is somewhat limited.  There are a few insurance companies that will provide coverage but it will be very difficult as a student pilot and probably only one, maybe two, options after you are a private.  If you buy a tailwheel Maule, most companies will require 50 to 100 hours of tailwheel time before they will even offer a quote.  Yes, a Maule can be quoted, but it will be expensive in comparison to the other models.  Probably 30 to 50 percent higher premiums for a low time pilot.

I think the Cessna 177 is one of the prettiest aircraft that Cessna built.  The 177’s are comfortable, roomy and have a decent cruise.  Nevertheless, the wing and the design are better suited for long and/or paved runways.  If you have any intention of landing on grass strips, in the mountains or under unusual conditions you should opt for the 172 or the 170.  Its probably better to stay away from the 1968 model 177 unless it has been converted to a 180 horsepower engine or you want to fly it as a two seat aircraft.  The original 150 horsepower 1968 Cessna 177 is considered under-powered by many people (and underwriters)

If you are willing to pay about 25 percent more in insurance premium go for the Cessna 170.  The increased premium will be the result of your low time and the fact that the aircraft is a tail wheel aircraft.  Also, remember the stock 170 powered by the 145 horsepower Continental 300 and the performance is not going to be quite as good (cruise and load) as the Latter model Cessna 172.

I keep going back to the Cessna 172.  It will do everything those other aircraft will do and probably at a cheaper operating and insurance cost.  If you really want to increase the performance of the 172, you could always look for one with a 180 horsepower conversion.  Fly that aircraft and build hours and trade for a Cessna 180 or convert the 172 to a tail wheel aircraft.  The 172 is a good trainer and all around aircraft.  In the long run it retains its value well so even if you fly it a couple of years you should be able to sell it at a reasonable cost.

Cessna 172 or 177

 

ATC PRIVATIZATION THREAT TURNED ASIDE BY UNIFIED GRASSROOTS EFFORT

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ATC PRIVATIZATION THREAT TURNED ASIDE BY UNIFIED GRASSROOTS EFFORT

ATC Privatization plan dropped from House bill

EAA AVIATION CENTER, OSHKOSH, Wisconsin — (February 28, 2018) — ATC privatization has been removed from an FAA reauthorization bill in the House of Representatives, scoring a victory for general aviation against a powerful, well-financed lobby that sought to give control of the national air traffic system to the country’s largest airlines.

Rep. Bill Shuster (R-Pennsylvania) announced Tuesday evening that he is removing ATC privatization from H.R. 2997 and moving toward an FAA reauthorization bill that can pass both houses in Congress. Shuster, who is retiring after this year’s election, had attempted to garner enough votes to bring the privatization plan to the full House on several occasions over the past year.

“This is a tribute to all of you in general aviation who took the time to make yourself heard,” said EAA CEO/Chairman Jack J. Pelton. “Thanks to the unified fight by the GA community, this bill was not going to pass with ATC privatization as part of it. We can now move ahead with what we have maintained all along – modernization, not privatization. We can fund the FAA long-term and let the agency continue with its already progressing modernization efforts.

“I want to thank every one of the grassroots aviators who took time to call, write, and visit their congressional representatives, and express the far-reaching negative impacts that ATC privatization would have on the world’s busiest, most complex, and safest air traffic system.”

EAA was among the groups who warned of the privatization threat, a coalition that grew to include more than 200 aviation associations, plus consumer advocates, mayors from throughout the country, and even some conservative groups. The government’s own nonpartisan review agencies also panned the ATC privatization concept, noting it would add nearly $100 billion to the federal deficit, slow modernization of the air traffic system, and threaten national security.

“This was, as we’ve said all along, a bad solution to a nonexistent problem,” Pelton said. “Now let us join together to do the real work on behalf of aviation. We seek congressional passage of a bill that will maintain equal access to skies and eliminates the threat of user fees, aviation event fees, and other burdens that inhibit the future of general aviation.”

About EAA
EAA embodies The Spirit of Aviation through the world’s most engaged community of aviation enthusiasts. EAA’s 200,000 members and 1,000 local chapters enjoy the fun and camaraderie of sharing their passion for flying, building and restoring recreational aircraft. For more information on EAA and its programs, call 800-JOIN-EAA (800-564-6322) or go to www.eaa.org. For continual news updates, connect with www.twitter.com/EAA.

RARE BRITISH AIRCRAFT AMONG CLASSIC JETS COMING TO EAA AIRVENTURE OSHKOSH 2018

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RARE BRITISH AIRCRAFT AMONG CLASSIC JETS COMING TO EAA AIRVENTURE OSHKOSH 2018

British Meteor, Venom, and Vampire to join U.S., Canadian, Soviet jets at event

EAA AVIATION CENTER, OSHKOSH, Wisconsin — (December 14, 2017) — Some of the oldest jet aircraft in existence will be flying over the flightline at EAA AirVenture Oshkosh 2018 as the world’s largest fly-in convention brings together a rarely-seen gathering of these early jets.

The 66th annual Experimental Aircraft Association fly-in convention is July 23-29 at Wittman Regional Airport in Oshkosh, Wisconsin. The event annually welcomes more than 10,000 airplanes and 500,000 people from 80 nations to celebrate the history and future of flight.

Among the airplanes expected to participate is a rare British Meteor, currently the oldest flying original jet in existence, which will arrive from the United Kingdom. British Venom and Vampire jets will be part of the gathering, as will American designs such as the T-33 “Shooting Star” and F-86 “Sabre,” as well as a Soviet-era MiG-17.

“Classic jets have been part of the EAA AirVenture warbirds lineup for a number of year, but to include rare British aircraft such as the Meteor, Venom and Vampire makes the 2018 gathering even more special,” said Rick Larsen, EAA’s vice president of communities and member programs who coordinates AirVenture features and attractions. “Many people have never seen some of these jets fly in-person, which is why bringing these airplanes together is another reason EAA AirVenture 2018 is a can’t-miss event for aviation fans.”

“Oshkosh is known as the place where everything that flies is welcome and is appreciated by attendees, so to bring these rare jets to the AirVenture flightline is among the highlights of our odyssey to save, restore, and fly these magnificent airplanes.” said Marty Tibbitts, President of the World Heritage Air Museum of Detroit, Michigan, which is bringing the British jets to Oshkosh in 2018. The museum’s mission is to rescue military jet aircraft from the 1950s, ’60s, and ’70s.

Other early jet aircraft will be coming from members of the Classic Jet Aircraft Association as well as private owners throughout North America. These enthusiasts are encouraging all owners of vintage jet aircraft to fly to Oshkosh in 2018 to make this reunion one of the largest ones even undertaken.

“The opportunity to be a part of the air shows and programming at Oshkosh is one that all classic jet owners should attend,” said Zach McNeill, Classic Jet Aircraft Association president. “These airplanes have unique histories and so many individual stories. The best place to share them is at Oshkosh, where worldwide aviation fans are eager to hear and appreciate more about these airplanes.”

The F-86 and T-33 aircraft communities are also urging their members to bring their aircraft to AirVenture, where they will participate in the daily air shows, displays on the Boeing Plaza main showcase ramp, and up-close presentations as part of the Warbirds in Review program. Complete details, including air show participation, will be released as they are finalized.

“We’re looking to create a reunion of these legendary jets at Oshkosh that is rarely seen by the public,” said Paul Keppeler, who owns and flies both a T-33 and F-86 jet aircraft. “There is something about being part of the Oshkosh experience that creates unforgettable moments, and we want as many of these jets as possible to be there this coming summer.”

About EAA AirVenture Oshkosh

EAA AirVenture Oshkosh is the “World’s Greatest Aviation Celebration” and EAA’s yearly membership convention. Additional EAA AirVenture information, including advance ticket and camping purchase, is available online at www.eaa.org/airventure. EAA members receive lowest prices on admission rates. For more information on EAA and its programs, call 1-800-JOIN-EAA (1-800-564-6322) or visit www.eaa.org. Immediate news is available at www.twitter.com/EAA.

 

RARE BRITISH AIRCRAFT