Category Archives: Cessna

Murphy Moose or Cessna 185?

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Question. 
I’m considering either building a Murphy Moose, or buying a Cessna 185.  I want it for flying in canoes and kayaks to remote locations in North America (last trip was canoeing near the Arctic Ocean).  I’m not yet even a private pilot (but will be by summer).  I want a budget planning estimate of what the operating cost of either of these aircraft are going to cost me, equipped with amphibious floats, for a qualified pilot with low hours.  Can you do that?










Answer. 
Sort of.  I consider the Murphy Moose and the Cessna 185 to be pretty close in operational costs as far as fuel burn, maintenance etc.  A lot will depend on the engine used in the Moose.  Another big difference will be that you will build the Moose and you can do the maintenance if you have the repairman certificate.  The Cessna 185 will need a shop and mechanic to do the repairs.  But the savings you get in maintenance for the Moose will probably be made up in the insurance premiums.  Since it is an experimental aircraft and since it will be on amphibious floats, insurance will be almost impossible or at least very, very expensive.  Not to say the insurance for a low time pilot in a Cessna 185 will be that much lower, it will still be expensive. 
I’d look into calculating the average cost to operate a Cessna 185 or maybe even a 206. Contact me for a free sample cost of ownership Excel spread sheet. 
I’d also contact a few owners and see what they are saying.  I have been told that the Cessna 185 costs about $130 an hour to operate, not counting the floats.  It would be worth your while to do a little research before you make a decision. 
It will also be necessary for you to build up a number of hours as a pilot AND as a seaplane pilot.  The chances for a low time pilot (under 500 total time and 100 seaplane hours) of getting any insurance will be very low. 
That might also make the difference in which aircraft you get.  If you build (or build) the aircraft without having to borrow money, insurance might not be required.

On a side note: Murphy Aircraft feels the Moose is probably closer in operation to a Dehaviland Beaver.   Okay, I have to say, that’s a selling point for the Moose right there. Who hasn’t wanted a Dehaviland Beaver?  I may be a Cessna fan but a round engine aircraft on Amphibs…

SUN ‘n FUN Evaluates Safety Protocol before Annual Fly-In

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SUN ‘n FUN Evaluates Safety Protocol before Annual Fly-In
(March 9, 2017 Lakeland, FL) Thursday morning brought Lakeland’s finest to the SUN n FUN Expo Campus for their annual Emergency Preparedness and Response Plan meeting ahead of the 43rdannual SUN ‘n FUN International Fly-In & Expo, which will be held April 4-9, 2017.
Representatives from all of Polk County’s emergency response teams attended the meeting, which included an hour long mock drill. Jeff Wharton of the Lakeland Fire Department and Rick Savage, representing Life Net 5, led the course and drill. All SUN ‘n FUN staff members were required to attend the meeting and drill, and the 30-plus participants followed a carefully prepared procedure that has been developed in case of emergency during the fly-in.
The drill included a site-wide power outage and simultaneously a patron who was involved in a hit and run. The drill included Life Net 5 landing a helicopter on the campus to retrieve an injured spectator, Lakeland Fire Department fire trucks, and Lakeland Police Officers responding to the emergency in real time.
SUN ‘n FUN has always been dedicated to the safety of every person who enters of their campus and strives to improve safety regulations every year. John “Lites” Leenhouts, President and CEO of SUN ‘n FUN, knows how important safety protocols are and makes sure his staff is prepared for any emergency on the SUN ‘n FUN Expo Campus.
“Safety doesn’t happen by accident,” Leenhouts stated. “It’s the result of trained professionals acting with good judgement and procedures that govern good operations in the air and on the ground. Professionals don’t make mistakes.”
The staff working during the SUN ‘n FUN International Fly-In & Expo utilizes many different techniques to reach the public in the event of an emergency. Patrons are encouraged to sign up for text message alerts, which will alert them to an emergency on the campus. They can also utilize social media to see updates on events in the area. New to the event this year, the campus will have jumbotrons on the airfield to prepare fans for weather alerts and emergency situations. The event will also include a siren on the campus for the first time. The siren will blare when there is a severe weather alert, warning people to move to an inside location on the campus.
Jeff Wharton believes drills are a great way to prepare for an emergency.
“Safety is the main goal for SUN ‘n FUN” Wharton said. “We want everyone to have a good time, but be aware of their surroundings. There are things during the fly-in that are not normal to an everyday theme park like airplanes, golf carts, four wheelers, etc.”
The SUN ‘n FUN International Fly-In & Expo is prepared for an action-packed show, which will include performances by the US Navy Blue Angels and the world’s largest gathering of P-51 Mustangs in close to a decade. Air show and workshop schedules, camping reservations, registration for activities, and ticketing information can be found on the SUN ‘n FUN website at flysnf.org. As always, safety will be a top priority.
For more information on SUN ‘n FUN safety, please contact our office at 863-644-2431.
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SUN ‘n FUN is a 501(c)(3) not-for-profit corporation, located on the grounds of the Lakeland Linder Regional Airport in Lakeland, FL. Proceeds from all year-round events are returned to aviation-based STEM (Science, Technology, Engineering, and Math) programs, activities and facilities, and used to support on-going scholarship funding
Jackie Jenkins
Communications Coordinator
Visit us online for a year full of events 
& mark your calendar for the 43rd Annual
SUN ’n FUN International Fly-In & Expo

April 4-9 | 2017

Do most aircraft sell for base book value?

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 Question.  I have read your book *”How to Buy a Single Engine Airplane” and learned a great deal.  One question I have is that since you have done so many plane transactions, you made mention that you see most planes go close to the base retail price as noted on Vref? 
Is it still a buyer’s market? If that is still true, would a better deal be below base retail?  As I look at pre-owned planes I want to make sure I don’t pay too much.  Thanks for your advice if you have time to answer this email.
Answer. Thanks for the email. I personally think that it is still a buyer’s market.  I am still seeing a slight increase in sales, but the market still seems to be slower than it has been in years past.  I’ll guess that a lot of people have an opinion about this.  I also see a lot of prices when we are insuring aircraft purchases.  I try and keep an eye on the values of the new transaction and compare them to the book to see what the buyers are paying. And the underwriters will question a value that is too high or too low. 
Remember, this is my opinion about the market. 
I think that many of the aircraft advertised are overpriced and now that the investment and aviation markets seem to be growing again, the sellers are reluctant to lower their prices for a sale and risk losing money.   Additionally, fairly low interest rates will allow sellers to keep a higher price.  The sales pitch is that the payments will still be low.
My guess is that the seller will try and wait for the higher price BUT, even then, it appears that most of the aircraft end up selling for a price that is around the base values listed in the books.
The Vref base value takes into account the average number of hours that the aircraft should have on the airframe and engine at the time of sale.  The base price also includes a standard radio package for the model and an average condition.  That is probably representative of over 50 percent of the aircraft on the market.  So the base price is probably representative of over 50 percent of the aircraft for sale.  Sure, you can add for low engine time and low airframe, but it all seems to balance back towards the base price.  A plane with a low total time, say 1,500 hours, will get an increase in value for the hours.  But if the engine has 1,500 hours on it also (and a 2,000 TBO) the book will reduce the value for the engine hours over the halfway point of 1,000 hours.  Typically, the value of the engine per hour is higher than the airframe per hours.
Of course, if you have an aircraft that is loaded with all kinds of fancy modifications or avionics, the price will probably not be close to the base book values.  But on the average, basic book values are pretty close.

*The book “How to Buy a Single Engine Airplane” is out of print.  
But email me for a packet of buyers tips.